A seminary instructor stated he found somewhere in the Old Testament once that gave this answer a DEFINITIVE no shadow of doubt "no". But when asked to produce this verse, he said he couldn't remember where it was or even the wording, it was just something he'd come across in his studies one time.
If you want to believe they look down on us, you'd probably take a look at "Hebrews 12:1 Wherefore seeing we also are compassed about with so great a cloud of witnesses, let us lay aside every weight, and the sin which doth so easily beset us, and let us run with patience the race that is set before us,"
If you want to believe they don't, the best thing I'd have is the rich man and Lazarus would suggest the rich man couldn't see his brother's from where he was, so the lost dead can't look to the people on earth. They seemed to be on some altogether separate plane of existence. (spiritual maybe?) The same could possibly apply to those in heaven.
I wish I knew that verse the seminary professor had found at one time.
Revelation 6:9-11, “And when he had opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the souls of them that were slain for the word of God, and for the testimony which they held: And they cried with a loud voice, saying, How long, O Lord, holy and true, dost thou not judge and avenge our blood on them that dwell on the earth? And white robes were given to every one of them; and it was said to them, that they should rest yet for a little season, until their fellowservants also and their brethren, that should be killed as they were, should be fulfilled.”
According to verse 10 these who had been slain during the Tribulation were in Heaven and were completely aware that they had not yet been avenged.
They were in the same Heaven that our loved ones, who have died in Jesus have gone to. If they could tell what had not YET happened then we can assume that they tell what HAD happened and what was happening.
The most often used reasoning for them not being able to see what was going on here, is that it would make them sad. Jesus was perfect and yet showed emotions during his life...why wouldn't we also express emotions (that God gave to us) for eternity?
Just my thoughts....what do you think Papa and Snide?
Sounds good to me. I just don't think there is enough scriptural evidence for me to take a stand. They could have known they had not yet been avenged by other means and methods (such as knowing Jesus had not yet left heaven for the millenial reign coming in which he destroys the antichrist, b/c naturally they would all have left heaven on white horses with Him if it had already happened.
To clarify. They could have known they had not been avenged b/c of other scriptures they knew which had not yet come to pass.
I'm not making a definite statement one way or the other. I lean one way, but can't prove it and so won't preach it. I just haven't found enough scripture to prove one way or the other definitively. Good point though. You gave one possible explanation as to why they know they've not yet been avenged.
Their awareness of impending avenging may have less to do with their being able to see something and more with the fact that they lack their physical bodies which will one day be raised incorruptible.
I attend Heritage Missionary Baptist Church. I'm a deacon & sunday school teacher. I am married to a wonderful lady named Paula whom the Lord brought into my life. I thank God every day for all the blessing he has bestowed upon me considering I deserve none, but because of his love for me. I give God all the honor and glory.
4 comments:
A seminary instructor stated he found somewhere in the Old Testament once that gave this answer a DEFINITIVE no shadow of doubt "no". But when asked to produce this verse, he said he couldn't remember where it was or even the wording, it was just something he'd come across in his studies one time.
If you want to believe they look down on us, you'd probably take a look at "Hebrews 12:1 Wherefore seeing we also are compassed about with so great a cloud of witnesses, let us lay aside every weight, and the sin which doth so easily beset us, and let us run with patience the race that is set before us,"
If you want to believe they don't, the best thing I'd have is the rich man and Lazarus would suggest the rich man couldn't see his brother's from where he was, so the lost dead can't look to the people on earth. They seemed to be on some altogether separate plane of existence. (spiritual maybe?) The same could possibly apply to those in heaven.
I wish I knew that verse the seminary professor had found at one time.
Revelation 6:9-11, “And when he had opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the souls of them that were slain for the word of God, and for the testimony which they held: And they cried with a loud voice, saying, How long, O Lord, holy and true, dost thou not judge and avenge our blood on them that dwell on the earth? And white robes were given to every one of them; and it was said to them, that they should rest yet for a little season, until their fellowservants also and their brethren, that should be killed as they were, should be fulfilled.”
According to verse 10 these who had been slain during the Tribulation were in Heaven and were completely aware that they had not yet been avenged.
They were in the same Heaven that our loved ones, who have died in Jesus have gone to. If they could tell what had not YET happened then we can assume that they tell what HAD happened and what was happening.
The most often used reasoning for them not being able to see what was going on here, is that it would make them sad. Jesus was perfect and yet showed emotions during his life...why wouldn't we also express emotions (that God gave to us) for eternity?
Just my thoughts....what do you think Papa and Snide?
Sounds good to me. I just don't think there is enough scriptural evidence for me to take a stand. They could have known they had not yet been avenged by other means and methods (such as knowing Jesus had not yet left heaven for the millenial reign coming in which he destroys the antichrist, b/c naturally they would all have left heaven on white horses with Him if it had already happened.
To clarify. They could have known they had not been avenged b/c of other scriptures they knew which had not yet come to pass.
I'm not making a definite statement one way or the other. I lean one way, but can't prove it and so won't preach it. I just haven't found enough scripture to prove one way or the other definitively. Good point though. You gave one possible explanation as to why they know they've not yet been avenged.
Their awareness of impending avenging may have less to do with their being able to see something and more with the fact that they lack their physical bodies which will one day be raised incorruptible.
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